Reallusion for Linux needs to happen

I have a pro license of cascadeur.
Cascadeur already available for the Linux platform.
Iclone, in it’s current full version form ,is already behind cascadeur in terms of its auto physics engine.
Ragdoll simulation, including interaction with scene props.

And the auto in between system.

Single indie game developers and small studios already have access to a superior game character animation system for the cost of a $300 cascadeur pro license.

With the full version of iclone already being considerably behind cascadeur, I cannot imagine that a crippled version of iclone would somehow be even more attractive to single indie game developers and small studios, even if Reallusion priced it the same as cascadeur or slightly less.

BTW, here are the actual FACTS about Lenovo “dumping”
windows and Bill Gates “panicking” about it

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You know, FACTS are so boring… :rofl:

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Deflections and distractions aside.
I don’t really care, if Lenovo is dumping Windows for real or not, for that has absolutely zero impact on my descision, which OS I’d like to use.
Pretty much everyone, doing 3d stuff as his main hobby, goes for custom assembled PC elements, either the DIY way or through shops.
So why bring this one up?
I just want to get away from Windows for several reasons and my final goal is, to have an OS, that can run my apps easily without slowing down.
In fact, I don’t even want to be connected to the Internet all the time, while playing with my software. Having a double set up, like a laptop for downloading apps and content and a PC for running 3d and graphic apps without phoning home AI bloated spying OS and apps.

I apologize in advance for the bad grammar. Typing this right before I go to work.

30 years ago I had a dream of creating a digital comic book. I was in business school and it was my goal to gain the ability to run the financials and be the writer for the comic book, as I was terrible at art but a good writer. I put together (in college) a team of like-minded individuals who also had artistic talent and we were going to form a company. Unfortunately part of being young is being stupid, and I let that dream go. And, once I entered the working world I almost completely forgot about. Now digital media is all over the place. A little over 10 years ago, I tried to make the dream a reality. I just needed a single artist and I went to a friend from high school. At this point we’d both been working for 20 years and we both realized working for someone else wasn’t going to make us rich, and it wasn’t even lending us a lot of financial stability. Pensions are largely a thing of the past, now it’s all about the 401K. So we formed a little LLC, I bought him a digital pad to do the art on, and I did the story. It never went anywhere because work had burned him out. He no longer had the fire necessary to do the art. And after a year of trying I gave up trying to get out of him. But I wouldn’t let it go. I tried to do a short animation. I put together a team, forked out about $20K and we muddled through to create an animated short. This was years ago and I had ZERO experience doing this. It was a mess - as it should’ve been. I entered it into a competition to win a grant and it came nowhere close. But it was the most satisfying failure I’ve ever had because we made SOMETHING (finally). That path simply wasn’t financially viable. I JUST paid off the last of that $20K debt (only to have medical issues which caused me to go back into debt). Then I found Reallusion and I learned I could create characters all on my own. So here I am in my late 40’s. I’ve been working a little less than 30 years and I’m 20 years away from retirement (could be more). I still love writing, I love creating characters, and I love creating worlds for my characters. But I don’t have a ton of time. I look at the comic Autodidact did and I marvel because THIS shows what one person can do with time, skill, and effort. I don’t have a lot of time OR skill, but I can put forth effort. So I came up with a way to do an audiobook that does audiovisual storytelling. I’m still working out exactly how I want it to present, mainly because the AI TTS programs don’t properly annunciate all of the time. And the engines are still perfecting how to convey the emotions I want, but it gets better every month. Reallusion allows me to consistently create characters the way I want them to look, and then I can put them in IClone and pose them properly. AI can do backgrounds and VFX. I’m still working out the kinks, but it’s a one man operation (and I do have two artists that I hire out to do custom costumes, weapons, jewelry and I’m trying to get a person to do hair).

I said ALL of that to point out I love Reallusion, but I’m an INCREDIBLY small niche. I understand Reallusion is (or has been) moving away from hobbyists like me and are trying to sell to companies (as they should be). But whatever marketing strategy they’re using, it didn’t go well for them in 2024. https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/6882.TWO/key-statistics/

People who want to do image creation and don’t care about consistency can just use AI tools now, many of them for free. Or they can just make videos (which - to ME - look bad because they’re so terribly inconsistent) and have AI do voiceovers. That’s going to pull more potential customers away from Reallusion, and a whole lot of other companies as well. And, as has been pointed out, their motion software is already inferior to UE and Cascadeur. So they’re not a market leader. They can’t absorb the same kinds of losses UE can because they’re a much smaller company. I do love what they did with CC5, but like all things Reallusion, it was expensive. Not everyone was willing to pay that. Reallusion, as a company, isn’t in a great position. The BEST thing they’ve done is add a plugin that utilizes AI in their software. From what I’ve used and seen on the thread, that hasn’t been supremely successful, but it’s a step in the right direction. And THEN we get to the mess that has become Windows 11. People ARE moving away from it. In droves. Yes, if you choose to work with Reallusion products, you are choosing to use Windows. Facts. But people are actively looking to move away from Windows. It was already a trend and now it’s become far more than that. That further shrinks Reallusion’s already diminishing customer base.

I look at Reallusion in this landscape and I wonder how or even if they can survive? I WANT them to. I’m rooting for them to make it because what’s left of my dream (which is now just a hobby) utilizes their product, but more and more it’s looking like it will get left behind. I honestly don’t know if they have the money to make a Linux variant. I hadn’t looked at their 2024 financial highlights until now. I don’t know what they’re going to do, but what I do know is people are adopting Linux and because of that they won’t even entertain Reallusion as a product.

It truly irks me to say this, because I actively root against Microsoft, but based on Reallusion’s company size and lack of profitability (and with AI taking over), their best bet is that Microsoft cleans up Windows 11. And that, in my opinion, is a very bad bet. The outlook for Reallusion looks grim, but I would love to hear from anyone who can contradict me.

take the nay sayers with a grain of salt, we have AD that paid for cascadeur but makes static web comics, and uses mostly ai for animation, and animagic talking about facts when the video they just posted repeated everything the videos i posted had…but since the videos I posted used funny faces thumbnails from bill gates and steve jobs …it got labeled misinformation lol -

the video they posted was right though, it said the same thing just differently. Having linux in Iclone only opens it to a new audience, it has zero negative effect on the windows 11 fan club, and I provided the links to the libraries that could easily make iclone linux compatible - the old schoolers here just love to fight! Gotta love em :heart_eyes:

I’m not in anybody’s fanclub, I just have a very practical outlook. Like I said, I have few problems with WIndows 11, it works will enough for me, end of story. I’m a creator, not a crusader.

If RL wants to create a Linux version that’s fine, if they don’t that’s fine too.

I see a future for me in using AI tools. Learning to use AI tools effectively is slow going, but I’m reporting about my journey in this thread: My foray into AI.
I have chosen a hybrid approach, where the scenes and characters are created in IC/CC and where the AI does the rest.

I sympathize with @cepheistudios viewpoint and I’m sorry about his WIndows 11 problems (your English is fine, BTW). RL has served me well over the years. I have created several short films and I have recently completed a feature. But if your tools or OS environment are starting to work against you that is frustrating, especially if you take the money you invested into account.

If the Proton environment for Linux is really as good as stated, it would be nice if somebody actually tried that out by running iClone that way. Talk is cheap, an actual test would be more convincing. So here is a challenge for the Linux devotees: try it. It would help quite a number of those who are stuck now.

Interesting tidbit: Microsoft and Red Hat Linux have been colloborating for over 10 years in the professional arena: https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/a-decade-of-open-innovation-celebrating-10-years-of-microsoft-and-red-hat-partnership/

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People who want to do image creation and don’t care about consistency can just use AI tools now, many of them for free. Or they can just make videos (which - to ME - look bad because they’re so terribly inconsistent) and have AI do voiceovers.

Having consistent characters across panels of a comics or graphic novel, or even in an animation has been completely solved by AI Technology,
( Just look at the seedance 2.0 videos with Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt.)

Any so-called “AI slop” you see with inconsistent characters is because the person is using the limited free tier of the tools and also probably not even properly setting up his work flows for character consistency.

Trust me, I started out believing that I could get by with only the free tools but the reality, for those of us who can afford the monthly subscriptions to the paid tools, is the difference between night and day in your level of user control

Here’s a quick example of a character. I was experimenting with just yesterday over at mage.space.
Once you switch into" character mode"
It is literally like working inside an application like Iclone or Daz.
Except you can build your character anywhere in any other software and upload it to the site.
You instruct the AI to make that particular custom character of yours Do whatever you want or take on whatever pose or facial expression you want
( For comic panel art.) and it will use that same character consistently.
They have animation tools on the site But I prefer grok AI because it is the best at 2D cartoon animation in my opinion.

Having linux in Iclone only opens it to a new audience, it has zero negative effect on the windows 11 fan club, and I provided the links to the libraries that could easily make iclone linux compatible -

On the matter of Linux versus windows by all means go ahead and download your favorite distro and dig in.
see how it works for you I have no dog in this “fight.”

No one here has to try and convince me that Reallusion has something to gain by paying their software team to rewrite All of their software for Linux, you have to convince them and …well have fun with that. :smile:

But the fact remains a combination of cascadeur & blender (with a few addons) and you have everything you need for traditional 3D character animation workflow.
All running on the Linux operating system.

So each person has to decide if they’re willing to venture outside of the ecosystem comfort bubbles of Reallusion or even Daz.

In truth I believe the desktop PC has no future at the consumer level.
It’s been dying for a long time in favor smartphones and AI has just accelerated its demise in my opinion, particularly considering what’s happening with Ram And GPU prices.
I really don’t see the younger generation of people (under 40) even buying desktop PC’s
(or traditional desktop creative software) in the future.

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That entire 92 page graphic novel, that I sell on Amazon,( and my patreon) was created in just 28 days using the Al
over it Mage.space just for the art.

The page layout panels and lettering was done in the $29 comic life software from plasq.
https://plasq.com/

And believe it or not, that graphic novel was made with a 3D hybrid workflow whereby every character and environment originally started out as a viewport render of Daz content imported into blender
these simple renders were restyled with the AI over at mage.space.

The mage.space AI has improved tremendously since I used it briefly last year to create that graphic novel.

I have committed to the $30 month pro plan
Because it has alot of comic book styles that I really like.

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All of this is terrific news and I’m going to use it. This weekend, if time allows, I’m going to attempt to take another deep dive into AI and see what I can do. One of the people who works for me has been pushing me to go harder with the AI and I have been reluctant to because it’s caused me a lot of frustration UNTIL last weekend, where it finally did what I wanted it to and the image looked pretty decent. AI gets better every month and I’m encouraged by this post.

I’m super interested in your foray into AI!!! Thanks for posting the link.

If you’re planning on using AI to create your comics or graphic novels, just be aware that there are a wide variety of approaches that people are undertaking.
Most of the methods I’ve seen, showcase in videos, involved going through a complicated set up whereby you program the AI to create the entire comic page, including the panels and even the word balloons.

While I think everyone should use whatever AI approach they find best for their purposes, I Admit to being a bit “old school” having worked in the graphic design for print business for 15 years before even getting into 3D/CG animation, thus, I prefer to just create only the actual art and assemble the panels and pages manually but YMMV.

Why exactly again has a discussion about Iclone/CC5 for Linux been hijacked again into an AI debate?

lol, i know right ? besides, #fact Linux is better for AI - much less bloat - did you know that this year, Nvidia isn’t putting out any new consumer cards as they are focusing on AI ? and more #facts

Why would we base our decicions on corporate results? By the same token we should abandon AI because we are apparently in an AI bubble.

As to dropping of tech stocks (off-topic, but I didn’t start that), it is good to compare with like-wise stocks. Tech stocks in general are over-valued becasue investers like to chase the latest novelty. But, If we want to seriously discuss that aspect, we should start a new topic and Peter wouldn’t like that because it has llittle to do with RL. Also, we would need more that an AI summary.

Human-generated summary of this whole thread:

  • It is unlikely that RL will develop a Linux version.
  • It may be possible to run iClone under Linux using Proton, but that has not been tested as far as I know.
  • If you want to start making your art using AI, the OS becomes less relevant and you could move to Linux if you so choose.
  • When using a web interface to access your AI, OS doesn’t really matter. Your internet speed would be far more relevant. Only if you want to run things locally (which would require a beefy machine), OS may be a factor.
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did you know that this year, Nvidia isn’t putting out any new consumer cards as they are focusing on AI ?

I see a trend of younger people, at the consumer /hobbyists level, moving away from traditional desktop PC based workflows
they were not going to buy a $2000 GPU in the first place.

and more #facts

That’s interesting, according to that
AI Generated overview, if windows use is in decline it is because users are leaving windows based desktops for mobile devices
which supports the data that desktop PC ownership is in steep decline.

And those who remain on the desktop are migrating to Mac OS with their amazing
M-series graphics system that completely liberates them from slavery to NVIDIA and has far greater support for the popular desktop creative software titles as native Mac OS versions.

@planetstardragon
I am curious, are you doing a dual boot system with Linux & Windows to continue to access your Iclone software?
If so perhaps you can assist the thread OP in getting started with a linux /Windows Duo Boot set up.

I’m planning where to upgrade to next - I know holding off upgrading wont last forever. from everything i’m reading about windows 11 , I’m reluctant to follow that path - I was taking stock of all the softwares I can bring with me, and it’s surprisingly high, with only a few art softwares like iclone that don’t cross over, and I see a growing market for that niche. I’m also getting tired of windows / microsoft sapping power from my system for services I don’t want.

I did have linux running nicely on my mac for troubleshooting purposes, i was impressed…the fact that linux runs on mac and pc hardware is appealing to me, I also liked the linux repository of free software, it’s pretty big! #exploringmode

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What is interesting is that when apple came out with the
M-series chips, the aftermarket value of all of the older intel based Mac pros fell off of a cliff.

They’re still pretty capable machines, So a lot of guys have cheaply acquired older Mac pros and turned them into some pretty powerful Linux machines.

In my mind you exchange one form of “slavery” (Nvidia) for another (Apple). And Apple is far from cheap if you want some performance. Just for fun I priced an iMac Studio that looks comparable with what I have now and it came to around $5K. I’m not interested in working on my phone. I have a 43" 4k monitor that I really like. I have no idea how much a comparable Apple monitor would be. I have never thrown money at hardware, it has always been a rational decision. I usually build my own systems, but when GPUs were very expensive I decided to buy a complete system as that was more affordable.

The “younger generation” got to do what they got to do, as they require continuous mobile connectivity. I don’t.

you have to check out the mac mini’s - you can get a super powerful processor for under 1500 - actually under 800 - even the m3 chip is a beast. I want a mac for the logic pro. Ubuntu runs on the m4 chip - and we can both definitely agree on the “slavery” topic - truth is - at this point internet and computers are more of a quality of life utility than a novelty - the corporate games windows and apple for that matter plays ( with their proprietary hardware ) is really not cool, and in a way, Linux is a way to liberate yourself from it, albeit not without caveats, but it’s nice that some corporations have taken some initiatives to give options.