Is Nvidia RTX 4090 needed for iClone?

@Mana.Lucine: the 5070 draws less power, but except maybe for games (which use a trick to increase the efective fps), the specs cannot compare to the 4090. It has only half the VRAM, less memory bandwidth, less CUDA cores, all specs that affect perfomace in a creative application like iClone.

So the claim the 5070 is like the 4090 but cheaper is kind of hype.

EDIT: Nirwana beat me to it…

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@Nirwana , @animagic you definitely made it clear! I won’t wait the 5070 rather I’ll buy a laptop with 4090, i don’t play games, just 3d stuff and graphics.

@Mana.Lucine
Please remember that I only compared desktop GPUs. The versions for laptops are usually considerably less powerful (to reduce power consumption and heat output) so what I said may not apply to laptop GPUs to the same degree.

As I said before, I wouldn’t want to do serious 3D work on a laptop. My render times are 30+ hours for 30 seconds of animation on an RTX3090 in a desktop (a few years old) already. Anything slower than that wouldn’t be worth it to me. Of course, these render times are not in iClone so you may be fine with a laptop, if iClone and/CC are the only 3D applications you plan to run on it.

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Hi @Nirwana i am working mainly on AfterEffects, Blender, Photoshop, Character Creator and iClone. Actually my PC with RTX 3080ti and 12th gen i9 is doing very well but it consumes alot of electricity, so I said I will switch to the laptop with 4090, do you think that it will deliver the same performance of my PC?

@Mana.Lucine
That is a little difficult for me to answer, since you are comparing a desktop to a laptop and I’m not familiar with the performance of laptop GPUs from first-hand experience. Also, apart from iClone and CC, I use none of the programs you mentioned so it is hard for me to estimate what kind of resources (GPU, but also CPU, RAM, etc.) these programs need.

However, I did do some 3D work with a PC with an RTX3080Ti and 11th (I think) gen i9 for a while (that system has been relegated to office work since then).

Looking at the specs of the RTX3080Ti and the laptop version of the 4090, they seem to be comparable in performance on paper: the 3080Ti has slightly more Cuda cores than the (laptop) 4090 but the 4090 has a higher clock rate and 4 GB of extra VRAM. That being said, unless you are very pressed for time, I would wait for the 50x series laptop GPUs to be launched because I would expect those to be both better in performance and more energy efficient than the 40x series (laptop).

Frankly, I don’t quite get the thinking behind the switch to a laptop with a high-end (laptop) GPU: You are willing to spend several thousand dollars on a new, fairly high-end (i.e. expensive) laptop to save on your electricity bill? Have you figured out how many hours you would need to run such a new laptop instead of the desktop you already have until its purchase price is set off by the savings in electricity? (My rough guesstimate would be that it takes in the neighborhood of 8 to 10+ years running the desktop/laptop 10 hours a day, every day of the year, which is probably longer than you will be using the laptop in the first place). So, unless you have other reasons to want a laptop, I don’t really get it.

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@Nirwana truly you are precise and helpful in your answers, my full gratitude to you for the advice, and I will consider all what you said and wait for RTX 50s for its expected low consuming of electricity. In my country electricity rates are very high, and my Alienware PC is always hungry for power, just imagine opening base character on iClone and doing some material adjustments, the fan gets louder and louder and my heart beats as I will face my electricity bill at the end of the month.
Roughly, designing a character on CC takes alot of machine noise, I don’t know why RL doesn’t consider reprogramming its software, all this magic and powerful animation capabilities with truly buggy and laggy software.
In blender things are made with minimum requirements, just compare how blender loads and opens up with RL loading on startup.

@Mana.Lucine
I had a quick look at the specs for the laptop versions of the 50xx series: Unfortunately, NVIDIA lists fewer performance specs for the laptop GPUs than for the desktop versions, for example they provide no information on shader/raytracing performance.
AI performance (AI TOPS) on the 5090 (laptop) is apparently more than double that of the 4090 (laptop); the number of Cuda core is only slightly higher on the 5090 compared to the 4090.

What would decide it for me is that the performance of the laptop 5090 is considerable less than that of the desktop version according to NVIDIA specs:
Cuda Cores: 10,496 (48%) vs. 21760 (100%)
AI TOPS: 1824 (54%) vs. 3352 (100%)
Raytracing (TFLOPS): no data vs. 318 (100%)
VRAM: 24 GB (75%) vs. 32 GB (100%)

That there is no data on the raytracing performance for the laptop GPUs is IMO not a good sign. Judging by the number of Cuda cores, I would think that the performance of the laptop 5090 is about 50% that of the desktop 5090, with the exception of the amount of VRAM.

In conclusion, since I’m pretty sure that the price of the laptop 5090 is not somewhere between 50% to 75% of that of the desktop version, I personally would not consider the laptop version.

What is the electricity rate per kilowatt hour (in USD) that you have to pay in your country? It would help with the “guesstimate” I made above (I figured about 0.50 USD per kilowatt hour).

Apart from that, the noise of the fans is not necessarily a good indication for excessive power consumption. It could also be noisy fans and/or sub-optimal heat management in the PC case.

You should get a plugin power meter that can help you figure out in real time exactly what your desktop consumes. It may also help with your decision as well as with fearing the monthly electricity bill (while I keep track of my electricity consumption by checking the (official) meter almost daily, I only get a bill for the power used once a year, although I do make monthly payments towards that final annual bill).

Yes, the startup times for both iClone and CC seem excessive. Other complex applications (e.g. Cinema 4d) load a lot faster on the same system. As I said, I’m not a Blender user, so times for Blender are of no concern to me.

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I would also consider what it is worth for you to have a quiet system. There is no magic bullet that makes laptops more efficient. Performance requires power and causes heat that must be dissipated somehow. I have an Alienware laptop and when it is working hard as in rendering it sounds like a vacuum cleaner; it is really loud. On the other hand, my Alienware PC with a 4090 is really quiet. The larger case, fans, etc. greatly help with the cooling.

Nirwana already gave you some tips on what you can do. There is also a handy free tool called GPU-Z, which allows you to check the power consumption of various individual components.

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I would definitely upgrade to a 5090 Desktop and never a laptop even with electricity bill concern as everything will be faster.

P.S.
Even i have very high electricity bills in my country.
And 3 times higher than capital in my area. I know how high it can go.

In summers my electricity bill is 1/4 of what we make in a month and literally we can buy a good laptop in 4 months of electricity payment.

Can you give me a rate in USD per kilowatt hour? Is it more or less than 0.50 USD (50 cents)?
In the summer, I need much less electricity from the power company than during the winter. I don’t have air conditioning and when the sun shines, I can generate most of the electricity to power my PCs and laptops myself.

How much would a “good laptop” be? 3,000 USD? More? Less?

Yeah the bill is dude to Air Conditioning.
300USD bill in Summers Per month.
Yeah So 3000 USD laptop with taxes will be like 4500USD in my country :slight_smile:
I assemble my Own PC to have good parts at good prices.

@Nirwana what you provided in here is undoubtedly a reference for anyone who is ‘fooled’ with laptop GPUs in comparison with PC’s. A state-of-the-art replies, thank you so much.
Regarding the prices of electricity in my country they’re 0.35 but I am opted to use AC as long as my Alienware PC is working cause it gets hot, also a 5000Kva stabilizer with a UPS power backup, all this stuff must be on to control the power voltage above 200 or the machine will be off.
So that’s alot of electricity consumption for this huge tower PC.
Thank you @animagic for the handy tool, I really need to find out about my hardware power draw.
@sungod the problem is not merely the machine but all the stuff that is required to run it smoothly i.e. stabilizer, UPS, AC… Etc

@Mana.Lucine

Yeah i am in same boat as you.
AC etc make most of cost.

Also a good assembled PC could beat Alienware at the price in some countries like mine.
Or atleast at same price more value.

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@sungod PC builds requires knowledge of assembling, which is though on just simple designers :wink: also they’ll cost alot if ever thinking about buying GPUs and CPUs alone

First of all, 0.35 USD per kilowatt hour is less than what I pay, so that is not all that extreme.
Second, requiring a stabilizer and AC to run a PC is a slightly different story. I don’t have AC; during the winter I’m glad for the PCs to heat up my room and during the summer, I may have to use additional portable fans on occasion. So, in terms of electricity consumption I only have to factor in what the PCs (plus accessories such as monitors) draw.
Now, if you need AC to cool your PC and AC is a major part of the electricity cost, are you sure a (powerful) laptop could do without AC? In general, laptops are more difficult to keep cool than larger PCs and a laptop with an RTX4090 or RTX5090 will probably draw up to 200+ watts which will likely cause quite a lot of excess heat. So, if you live in an environment where you need AC to cool a regular PC, I’m not sure that a laptop is a better choice.

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So @Nirwana you run your PC without an AC in the summer?! :hushed: This is something I always fraid of!! I thought a PC will ‘burn’ in high room temperature!!
You said a laptop with the mentioned GPUs draws +200W, isn’t it low in comparison with tower PCs with same cards?

Like I said, I don’t have AC so I don’t have the option of running AC for the PCs in the summer. If it gets too hot in the room for the PCs, it’s probably also too hot for me to do any work on the computers anyway so I don’t (it is, after all, just a hobby of mine, not something I absolutely have to do). Usually, however, there are only a few such days in the year, so it’s no big issue.

The big advantage of summer for me is that I can generate a large percentage of the electricity that I do use with the help of a few solar panels set up in the yard, so in that respect, I much prefer summer to winter. Right now, electricity costs for me are like 7 to 10 USD a day (for electricity from the power company), during the summer that usually drops to 1 or 2 USD a day.

Sure, 200+ watts for a laptop is less than a PC with a (desktop) RTX4090 or RTX5090 but the PC also performs better and is easier to cool. And, for me, there is an additional aspect: the size of the screen on a laptop is too small for me to work with for more than a few minutes at a time. In fact, any display of less than 32 or so inches in diameter is too small for me to look at for any extended period of time (its an age and eyes thing). Since I don’t see the point in hooking up a 40" display to a laptop, I’d rather go with a PC for that reason alone.

You mentioned that you need to run AC for the PC. As far as I know, AC draws a lot more power than a PC so the major component of the total electricity consumption is the AC and not the PC. Now, if you also need to run the AC for a power laptop then that component of the electricity consumption does not change. For example, say in one hour your AC draws 3 kWh and the PC 0.6 kWh for a total of 3.6 kWh. Now take the laptop with say 0.2 kWh plus the AC would be 3.2 kWh, meaning your savings in kWh would be 0.4 kWh or about 11%. If you know the consumption of your AC and that of your PC, you can come up with better numbers than my example. So the question is, would you run AC if you had a laptop? Perhaps for your own comfort? If so, I don’t think that the reduced power consumption of a laptop would be worth the higher purchase price (relative to performance) and the lower performance in general (so far, I have not met anyone complaining that their PC/laptop was too fast…).

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@Mana.Lucine: I have two Alienware Auroras, the R12 with a 3090 (a cousin of what you have, I believe) and the R16 with a 4090.

Now the R12 has a tendency to get quite hot under load because of less than optimal cooling. This was greatly improved in the R16, so Dell learned from that. The R16 also has a more traditionally-shaped case, so the interior is a bit larger.

The next generation will hopefully be as well-cooled.

I used to build my own PCs, but at the time it was impossible to get a 3090 at a reasonable price, so it was just as easy to buy the ready-made PC.

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@Nirwana the scenario that made me think of a laptop is that I won’t be in need of UPS and stabilizer units, indepiste as you said the laptop screen is truly small for software workspaces and dealing with the panels. So my thinking will be stuck with the fact that any 3D consumer must have a wide screen, that means if I’ll go mobile I gotta buy a monitor, thus i got to have the UPS and the stabilizer again. But after all your replies here I am going to buy a brand new tower PC, it is reliable and cheaper than +$3k laptop i was planning to buy (Lenovo i7 pro).

@Mana.Lucine

This is where custom PC tower comes.
Custom PC cooling is the key.
Also Best Cooled GPU we can select.
Here custom assembling is like 30 dollars.
I choose the biggest importer of the components in my city with good pricing.

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