IContent severely undervalues creator work

Hey,

I just found out one of my $25 products was sold for $7.50 under the new iContent model, which means i received only $5.25 after the split. Let’s be real, this entire model is fundamentally flawed.

You’re pricing my work, which takes me WEEKS, IF NOT MONTHS, to build at 30% of it’s actual value, and you’re calling it a “strategy to increase revenue for developers”. I don’t know what data you’re looking at (since you don’t share anything), but from where i’m standing, this is a slap in the face.

How many Cc4/IClone users are actually exporting to third-party tools? Because if most of them are just rendering within the Cc4/IClone, then they’re getting full visual and functional use of my asset for a fraction of the price. What’s the point of upgrading?

And i get no say in this. I can’t opt-out. There’s no way to protect the value of my work. You’ve turned hours and hours of sculpting and texturing into a cheap in app impulse buy, and just expect developers to get on with it.

This isn’t sustainable. Not for serious developers. If i wanted to sell my work for 5 dollars, i’d be on Gumroad, not investing in your platform.

At least give us separate listings for IContent and Standard licenses, so we can CHOOSE whether we want it on or off(per item/pack).

-Adam Haruna

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While I’m not a creator/developer of assets, I get what you are saying and I’d feel the same way.

As I pointed out in another thread, I would not purchase any iClone/CC asset that I cannot export to a third-party DCC or render engine. Never have, never will. But that is just me.

However, I also have no data on how many iClone users actually render in iClone (so far, one has pointed out to me that he does) and no information about how much these users spend on iClone/CC assets per year; that said, RL apparently thought it’d be a good idea to commit developmental and other resources to re-introducing iContent via in-app purchasing as well as to risk alienating their creator base, so maybe they know something that I/we don’t.

By the way, even if Standard-license content were available for in-app purchase, I don’t think I’d be interested in that feature either—I see no advantage over purchasing using the Content Store/Marketplace using the flexibility of a desktop browser. Instead, having this functionality inside iClone/CC probably introduces more points of failure and takes up software development resources that, IMO, could be put to better use elsewhere.

Even as a buyer I don’t like this, because I think it will reduce the number and range as well as quality of assets that will be developed and sold for iClone/CC in the future, as more developers cut back on or stop creating for iClone/CC entirely, thus leading to less choice for customers. A reaction which I totally understand: As a creator, I’d find this unilateral change in the terms pretty much unacceptable and would react accordingly (i.e. sell my creations elsewhere and/or find other ways to make money), until and unless RL gives creators a choice whether to participate in this iContent thing or not.

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Nirwana! Hey! Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. i appreciate it, especially since you’re not a creator yourself. You actually get it more than most.

It’s like you said, if developers start seeing a consistent drop in earnings, especially with no option to opt out, what’s the drive to keep creating for this platform? Most people won’t bother. I know for a fact that the good one’s won’t. All you’ll see is a bunch of different versions Camilla on the marketplace. That’s a loss for both creators and customers.

I get that Reallusion is trying to push more AI integration to keep up with the joneses, but there’s a line between innovation and exploitation, and it honestly feels like it has been crossed.

I appreciate you echoing the concern. For a second, i thought i was alone in this. Hopefully, more devs will grow a spine and speak up before the platform drives away the one’s actually trying to raise the bar.

As far as I’m concerned, AI is not the issue here. If it helps with AccuPose and searching for items on the stores, fine.

But the main issue here is the unilateral decision by RL to cut the price for iContent by 70% versus the Standard price. In what other business relationship can one party to the contract unilaterally and materially change the terms of business at the expense of the other, with the other party just having to accept that?
It’d be one thing if this applied only to future content, so that the creator can decide whether to put that up for sale in the first place, but, as far as I understand it, this applies to existing content retroactively and that is IMO a major problem.

Judging from my past purchasing behavior, I spend far more on content than on software. In fact, I have not purchased RL software since iClone 7/CC3 because I’ve been getting updates (to iClone 8, CC4), etc. for free with the amount of content I bought.
If the quality and quantity of content created by third-party developers goes down as a result of the iContent move, then I’ll be spending a lot less money on the RL platforms, unless RL can make up the content shortfall, which seems pretty unlikely.

How many Cc4/IClone users are actually exporting to third-party tools? Because if most of them are just rendering within the Cc4/IClone, then they’re getting full visual and functional use of my asset for a fraction of the price.

While I do not have any official statistics from Reallusion themselves I will make a possible extrapolation based on my interactions in several other ecosystem community forums.

I have Maya ,C4D and ,of course, Blender
and recently stared experimenting with the lightweight Godot game engine

Whenever I even mention the Reallusion suite of Character creation and animation software
in any of those online communities, you can almost hear the virtual crickets chirping……
A total wall of silence. :roll_eyes:

If there is a sizable demographic of Maya ,C4D and Blender ,Godot users buying into the Reallusion ecosystem, and exporting Characters &content & animations to their 3DCC’s, they are being strangely silent about it in their public online forums.
And the UE5 and Unity have their own affordable and thriving markets with in engine purchasing options

I see no advantage over purchasing using the Content Store/Marketplace using the flexibility of a desktop browser. Instead, having this functionality inside iClone/CC probably introduces more points of failure and takes up software development resources that, IMO, could be put to better use elsewhere.

From a marketing perspective many companies seem to beleive that having an in app store front more likely to foment impulse buying as going over to your main web browser could lead to distractions such as push notifications from social media ( tik tok, instagram etc) that could delay you hitting that “buy” button and immediately using the asset in iclone

The aforementioned UE5 & Unity video game engines use this in engine “buy now” tactic very effectively it seems.

Since you need to invest a lot more money to get started with CC/iC I would guess that it gets a lot less used by beginners, which mostly frequent online communities.

I very rarely see professionals posting and commenting in niche communities.

Perhaps so. However, in all the forums I’m familiar with, there is usually a core group of people who post regularly, many who only post if they have a problem they would like the community to help with, and a silent majority who hardly post anything ever.
The same is likely true for the number of people who show their “work” to the world/in a forum. If only those who publish actually create animations with iClone, then I guess RL would have long gone out of business.

What I’m saying is that just being “silent” may not mean too much in terms of the number of people who use third-party apps or render engines.

I guess time will tell. If too many creators leave/stop producing new content, and/or RL finds that this iContent business is a net negative (for them and the creators), I wouldn’t be surprised to see it scrapped again at some point in the future.

Yes, possibly that is a concern of theirs. Does not apply to me, since I don’t get push messages (I don’t use TikTok, Facebook, or Instagram and both X and YT—which I do use—don’t send me push messages either). Also, I try to avoid impulse buys or FOMO appeals. When I’m interested in an asset, but the price is not quite right yet, I just put it on my wishlist until it’s on sale; sooner or later it almost always is.

BTW: Do UE5 and Unity provide in-engine purchases for games only, or for any asset that someone using the engine just for rendering might want?

Autodesk Maya is not a “niche community” neither is Maxon C4D

Sure Blender online communities have alot of clueless newbies but in the Autodesk discussion forums you see people with professional portfolio links in their bio to their work for major animation & VFX studios.

Most of them have never even heard of Reallusion much less use its products.

And just check the job listings over on pro sites like Art Station.
There are two software skill sets you never see listed
Daz & Reallusion.

BTW the icontent vs Export content is all moot to me as I create my own content

My “theory” is that this apparent renewed focus on Icontent might indicate the export content is not selling as well as they would have hoped
as those other 3DCC & game engine communities have their own native content ecosystems
at cheaper prices with far LESS restrictions.

I’d regard professionals (i.e. studios, not just individuals with a monetized YouTube channel) using iClone as a pretty niche community by themselves…

Well, C4D does not have an own marketplace for content; I don’t know about Maya, 3D Max, etc.; Blender does and the game engines do, though.
With regard to cheaper prices, I’m not sure, I agree in all cases: for example, on both Fab and Artstation (which I have been frequenting lately), only the “personal” license or the one for those with an annual revenue/budget of less than 100K is often cheaper than what the assets sell for on platforms like CGTrader (especially if they have one of their frequent sales over there). So I decide on a case by case basis if and where to pick up an asset (BTW: in-app purchasing makes such comparison shopping more difficult, but perhaps that is the point or at least one of them).

Hi,

I usually only bought extended license.
But e.g. currently my funding is gone and I cannot even purchase iContent.

I believe with iContent it could be a game of Volume, i.e. with AI getting more in next Iclone major etc the volume of sales will cover your work.

I think it will be a net positive for the developers once the system matures.

Regards
Sungod

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Perhaps so. However, in all the forums I’m familiar with, there is usually a core group of people who post

Well test it yourself in whatever Maxon Forums you may visit.

Try posting about Ben’s CC4D tool set that imports CC4 characters and creates control rigs for retarget etc
or one your personal CC4 to C4D tests with a CC4 figure simulated wearing the C4D cloth system.

Do you get anywhere near the amount of responses from C4D users on C4D forums, that you get when you post your CC4/C4D “test” clips over here??
I would be interested in knowing.

BTW: Do UE5 and Unity provide in-engine purchases for games only, or for any asset that someone using the engine just for rendering might want?

I don’t use Unity or UE5 but it they work like Godot, once the asset is in your project folder it is available to use wether for a game build or a movie/Cinematic.

Well, C4D does not have a marketplace for content;

Perhaps not an official marketplace run by Maxon but there are third party market place like
Greyscale gorilla that serve the specific needs of C4D users

I don’t know about Maya, 3D Max, etc.

They mostly all Create character and content from scratch for commercial projects and
I can’t speak for Max but Maya installs with a fairly complete library of prefabs for peopl just getting started who may want to learn the animation /VFX system without building everything from scratch first or buying into the Reallusion or Daz ecosystem just to get a basic humanoid

And there are plenty of advanced rigs available online in native Maya format as well.

Yeah, these people work with what their companies provides them with. And game and movie companies obviously use 3DS Max/Maya since decades ago. The artists don’t look for other software themselves or even buy them with their own money.

I can’t. I’m not in any C4D forum. Currently, I’m only (active) in this forum and occasionally in a second one that is not 3D related. There are only so many hours in the day…

Sure. However, I was talking about market platforms run by the creators of the software or at least closely associated with those. C4D also has a number of assets in the Asset Browser (some behind a paywall), but Maxon does not—to the best of my knowledge—have their own market platform the way Epic has with Fab and Artstation.

Greyscalegorilla is not a marketplace for other creators, they only sell their own products (by way of a subscription, which is why I stopped doing business with them years ago).

And game and movie companies obviously use 3DS Max/Maya since decades ago.
The artists don’t look for other software themselves or even buy them with their own money.

And apparently neither are their employers when it comes to Iclone/CC4 export content hence the sudden pivot back to Icontent being sold at volume prices for use in inside iclone.

Sure. However, I was talking about market platforms run by the creators of the software or at least closely associated with those. C4D also has a number of assets in the Asset Browser (some behind a paywall), but Maxon does not—to the best of my knowledge—have their own market platform the way Epic has with Fab and Artstation.

It does not really matter if the official software publisher is running the content market or if its being done by third parties.

My point here is that these competing native format ecosystems exist for the major 3DCC’s and game engines.
in 2025

So there seems little incentive for the user bases of those 3DCC’s & game engine to spend $1000 on Iclone and CC4/5 just to export Reallusion store content with with RL licensing restrictions.

This business model did not work for Daz with their FREE base software & BETTER LOOKING genesis figures and content either and Daz is now locking the more advanced features and content of the new Daz studio 6 behind a monthly rentwall to extract more revenue from the core users who do not export to other software.

Lowering the price is a downwards spiral. There will always be someone who will say: ‘But Blender is free, but Unreal is free, but these asset store is much cheaper…’ even if you only charge pennies.

This is getting ridiculous. It’s the same with video games. They became so cheap that nobody wants to pay $60 if the game hasn’t 150 hours of content.

I don’t disagree
but that is the nature of a capitalist market economy.

And then there is the also factor of entrenched habits and the ecosystem comfort bubble.

Daz studio is FREE and we have an amazing free addon for importing Daz genesis figures and content into blender
with full texture conversion joint control morphs and pose & animation loading from your Daz content library
and the Daz “interactive license” is less restrictive and I can legally sell products in any store in the native Daz .duf format.

All completely ignored by the Blender community but they will gladly pay $128 for this character system because it works inside blender
https://superhivemarket.com/products/humgen3d

The nature is to undercut and destroy the competition so ones become the only option for customers and then to raise prices massively, because there is no longer competition.

This way, it will become much more expensive in the long run.

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OK, how many Blender users know about Daz and this amazing plugin for Blender? Is that like common knowledge in the Blender community? How many Blender users are willing to work with/learn another tool (Daz), even if the plugin makes the import of Daz assets into Blender easy? I’m assuming, you first knew Daz before you came to Blender. What about those, who hardly heard of Daz?
You consider it rational to pick the best tools for the job (especially when they are free or low-cost), even if it means leaving your main application and learning a new tool. However, not everybody thinks like that. As you have mentioned yourself, many users like to stay in their own comfort bubble with respect to the software they use. Apparently that is also what RL is thinking, by not even requiring users to leave the software to purchase assets.

A few days ago, we were discussing Icity. As far as I know, there is no comparable tool for C4D (i.e. a not strictly grid-based city generator) and, for a moment there, I was tempted to get Icity, use in Blender, and export whatever I came up with as an FBX for C4D. Then I reconsidered: I would have to learn basic Blender functionality (a big no-no for me) and there might also be issues with the export of procedural materials (if Icity uses those). So I decided to forget about it. Getting an Icity generated model into C4D is simply not worth the hassle to me, no matter how cool it might look.

I would not be surprised, if quite a number of Blender users also think that way and rather prefer to use a plugin that allows them to stay in Blender, even if it costs some money. That said, time is money. How many hours more would it take a complete Daz-noobie to learn enough to be able to create their own characters in Daz, dress them, and export them to Blender compared to the time they need to spend learning the Humgen3d plugin when they are already familiar with Blender in general?

I don’t think that will work in the market for 3D assets, for the simple reason that the barriers to entry are very low, so any price increase is going to attract competition. For example, if you want to sell 3D models in FBX format, all you need is a computer, some free software, and time to learn and create. You can always sell on places like Gumroad if you want to be independent of platforms that are affiliated with any one software company, or get a shop on your own website. And as long as you have an internet connection and electric power, you are good to go pretty much anywhere on the planet. How is anyone going to keep that competition out?

I haven’t paid for office software in years (even though Microsoft had a quasi monopoly), there are free alternatives that are good enough for my needs, so I don’t care if Microsoft increase their prices. The same way, I have not paid for Adobe products in years, either (although I’m tentatively considering possibly getting a Substance subscription).
Don’t you think that with increasing acceptance of Blender, it will put pressure on the other 3DCC package makers to not raise their prices too much? Maybe the big studios with their bulk discount don’t care if the “big players” increase their prices, but the freelancers and hobbyists do.

So, no, I don’t expect things 3D to become much more expensive in the long run.

You pay for the support. Blender doesn’t have professional support or training. If something doesn’t work in your professional pipeline because of a Blender update, you’re on your own.

Try doing that in an highly secured on-premise or cloud based company network with dozens of clients, remote access, browser integration, user account management, etc.

What I want to say is, if you want professional level quality you’ll have to pay professional level prices.