Was checking the methods that I could get the free prelaunch cc5 and one of the good packages is to do the iclone + cc4 bundle ( even though I already own cc4, I basically own everything in all the other packages so this would be the one package where i don’t actually already own everything since i don’t own iclone ).
However, I actually don’t really know what iclone is primarily used for, is it for like movie making, scene based animations, and also just individual model based animations?
If I want to use Reallusion stuff for UE games, what is the main feature that I’d get from iclone that I don’t have with CC? Would it be like an alternative to UE’s in-editor scene/animation editor? Can scenes import directly into UE from Iclone, or am I misunderstanding the purpose of iclone?
For model based animation, how is it different than posing and making them inside UE itself, does Iclone have AI based keyframe animation or are they planning on adding that in the future?
Unlike CC4 which is primarily focused on character creation, iClone gives you a Timeline with advanced animation features, such as a variety of mocap options, crowd scenes with paths, Motion Director which allows you to control your characters a game using a controller or the W.A.S.D keys and much more.
And once you have created your animations, they can be exported to 3rd party software like UE5 or you can use Unreal Live Link which is FREE for Indie developers.
I see so there are various animation methods such as mocap, etc.
I see you guys are adding alot of various AI features for stuff, do you have any plans to add AI assisted animations? Like the ones where you move some of the skeleton and then other parts of the skeleton move automatically to make it look realistic? Or is it pretty much just combining purchased animations and mocap?
How is the mocap, can it just create an animation from a video file or webcam?
This feature is already included. It’s called AccuPose.
You’ll get a base amount of motion corrections with the Accupose core library. If you want more you need to subscribe. I don’t think the subscription is worth it compared to tools like Cascadeur where you only need to pay once.
I’m not a Cascadeur user, but as I understand it, the assisted posing in Cascadeur only takes into consideration the character’s center of gravity (i.e. tries to keep the overall character pose “in balance”), whereas AccuPose makes the position assistance dependent on the type of motion you select (e.g. ballet versus combat, with some motions being gender-specific). So, while Cascadeur and AccuPose both help with posing, there are differences. At least to my knowledge.
The subscription gives you access to a greater range of motion types the AccuPose AI model was trained on, and that library keeps increasing every month. Whether that is worth the price of the subscription, is up to the individual user.
Could be, I don’t know because I don’t subscribe to Accupose. Both are nearly the same price and Cascadeur can do much more than Accupose and after a year you can keep your license perpetually.
I personally recommend iClone more for combining premade animations or creating facial animations.
Nearly the same price applies only to the Indie version of Cascadeur (the Pro version is 4x as much), and while you get a perpetual license after having paid for one year in advance, you don’t get updates for free after you cancel your subscription. So what good is that? If you always want/need access to the latest version, you are also stuck with a Cascadeur subscription.
So I understand. However, the Pro version has features that would be important to me if I were to get Cascadeur.
Well, not everything. Just the added motion “profiles”. That said, I don’t intend to cancel any software subscription until I stop using that software altogether.
My point is that in the age of subscription models becoming more and more common, it is difficult to completely avoid them without experiencing some downside.
For me, it would still not be a question of AccuPose (subscription) OR Cascadeur, but rather Accupose (subscription) AND Cascadeur because they each have features—that I consider useful—the other does not (I haven’t pulled the trigger on Cascadeur yet, but that is primarily because I don’t really have the time to learn it at the moment.
Subscriptions are okay, if you get customer support and feature request implementation. At my work our customers either pay a higher fee for each request or sign a support contract which offers them a monthly contingent of support, which is cheaper but they need to pay monthly. For business purposes, this is a good way to go.
I don’t see this in subscriptions for consumers. You pay and pay and pay each month and if you ask for help or want a certain feature update… crickets or “We put this request in our backlog”. You own nothing and if you cancel you lose everything. No, thanks.
Well, you pay primarily for the existing features of the software you subscribe to. Help (customer support) or feature requests are secondary, and not dependent on having a subscription or not.
Before there were subscriptions, you would have to pay for updates to help the software companies recoup some of their development costs. Now, you pay for the subscription and the updates are free. So what is the difference? What I now pay in subscription for C4D (as an example), I used to pay every year for the new version. Yes, the licenses were perpetual at the time, but not having the most up-to-date software did not and still does not work for me (it may for others).
Yeah, sure, if business customers pay a ton, they may get features sooner or have their own dedicated support person. But that is not financially feasible for average consumers, and it is also not financially viable for the software company to provide such services below cost.
You get what you pay for, and if you are willing to pay (a lot) more, you can perhaps expect more or better service in return.
That said, I don’t see a “consumer” and a “business” subscription fee for AccuPose (the additional stuff); did I miss something? (Cascadeur has a tier for teams/larger companies).
Also, I’m assuming that the place where you work primarily serves business clients and not consumers? If that is the case, then there seems little sense in comparing apples to oranges, i.e. how your place of work treats business clients vs. how other companies treat budget-conscious consumers.
Basically, your point is: subscriptions are not much more expensive or even cheaper than previous perpetual licenses and you’re always up-to-date. So, it’s no problem.
My point is: If I stop paying, either because I want to or because I can no longer afford it, I lose my investment. And besides that, subscriptions for consumers offer no benefit compared to perpetual licenses, or compared to subscriptions in business contacts. So, why only offer subscriptions to consumers?
Because subscriptions provide a more regular and even revenue stream for the companies, which indirectly benefits consumers because it helps companies to stay in business and continue to make software the consumers want.
As a fellow consumer, I get what you are saying. However, as you are probably aware, staying afloat in the competitive software business is not all that easy.
iClone 8 was released more than 3 years ago and the updates since then have been free if I’m not mistaken. In other words, revenue generated by iClone would need to come from new customers or from those who paid for an upgrade from iClone 7 or earlier. Many other software companies release a paid update every year (if they are not on a subscription model anyway). And with CC4 it has been pretty much the same story, the last paid update was 3+ years ago.
Apart from perhaps a plugin or two and some 3D and 2D content released by RL themselves, how do you expect the company to make money from existing customers? Especially if those chose to not update their software rather than pay for the update?
Yes, I know, RL also gets a cut from third-party sales on the Content Store and Marketplace, but that also makes them dependent on third-party creators and how well their products do.
That is one way of looking at things. I prefer a different one: you had the use of the software for the duration of the subscription. If you rent an apartment for two years and then decide to stop paying rent and move out, you are not going to get the rent for those two years back, either. That money/investment is gone. It was the landlord’s/landlady’s compensation for letting you live there, just as the subscription fee is the software company’s compensation for letting you use their software (legally). In both case you pay for time of use, you do not acquire ownership of the apartment or the software by renting or licensing them.
Even in case of perpetual licenses, the EULA may prevent the sale of the software (the license really) to somebody else if you stop using it. That is the difference between “owning” something and “licensing” its use.
That is indeed the difference. I own iClone since 1.53 and older versions still work, although not always on the latest OS versions. If you don’t own legacy content, older versions may not seem useful, but I do and I sometimes need to convert assets to make them work in the latest sofware versions. And, being able to still use 3DXchange can beneficial.
Just to put this into perspective, I bought iClone8 + CC4 for about $453 three years ago and this was the price reduced upgrade.
Until now that’s $151 per year over the last three years for both. That is $12,58 per month and CC5 is already coming for another $229.
This puts the Accupose subscription around 66% of the price of what early adopters invested into both iClone 8 and CC4 until today. So after four years subscribed to Accupose you nearly bought another iClone + CC upgrade. That’s round about one major version release cycle.
Do you think Accupose is worth this? Or is it maybe just a way to hide real costs over a long period of time? Are subscriptions really that affordable in the end?
That’s another very interesting point. In a subscription-only model you might only have access to the latest version. If this version breaks compatibility or introduces massive bugs it might not be possible to easily return to a previous working version.
From a strictly economic point of view: I don’t know—perhaps not. It depends on how often/extensively you use AccuPose/the software in question.
However, 3D is just a hobby for me and hobby expenses don’t always have to make economic sense in my book the way a business investment should. Business investments need to pay for themselves over time; a hobby that pays for itself is not really a hobby anymore, as far as I’m concerned.
Some people spend good money on their vacation, I don’t. Instead, I buy 3D content and software licenses, with the latter making up the smaller share on an annual basis.
The point of subscriptions, as I tried to explain before, is not so much affordability for the consumer, but a steadier revenue stream for businesses. As a consumer, the relevant question is can I and am I willing to afford the price asked (whether a one-time payment or a subscription)?
From the looks of it, the perpetual license model is largely being phased out in favor of subscription models; if people don’t like it, they can vote with their dollars, but I don’t see companies returning to the perpetual license as standard any time soon.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a fan of subscriptions—in fact, it’s one of the main reasons I stopped using Adobe CC software when they made it subscription-only. But there is software that I like not having access to even less than the subscription they charge.
I get that. Not so much for iClone/CC because I don’t really have content prior to iClone 7, but I need to keep an old version of C4D around, because many old project files (e.g. purchased models) cannot be loaded into any version later than R19 (released in 2017). Still, I find myself rarely using “old” content, because I find that it often no longer meets my requirements in terms of quality or “looks”.
So, yeah, for keeping “old” stuff still accessible, a subscription model that only provides access to the latest software release is not ideal, if you can no longer use earlier versions that you have installed on your system previously (I have five or six different versions of C4D on this machine).
It’s interesting that right after our discussion another post was made that discussed that Accupose feels more like a gimmick and didn’t help with animating at all: