CC4 / ActorCore / AccuRig to Cinema 4D Pipeline

Who said I learned Xparticles? I pick what I try to learn based on what I think I need or what interests me. I can set up certain simulations in XP, but there are a lot of other things/features in XP that I have never touched because they don’t interest me, so why would I spend time trying to learn that stuff? Makes no sense to me.
I take the same approach to iClone: Just try to figure out what I need and ignore the rest. For example, since I don’t light scenes in iClone, I never looked at its lighting system.

And while I do know how to work with the dope sheet in C4D for “normal” keyframes, I never tried to learn each and every animation feature in C4D; after all, I had never planned on doing character animation in C4D (hence no prior contact with rigs to control characters) and if it weren’t for my discovering iClone, I would probably still not be doing any character animation whatsoever. It’s not what I got into C4D for.

C4D supports Python, but I never looked at learning Python either, or learning Capsules, which I’m sure can do a lot of cool things for motion designers, or a ton of other stuff. Just because a program has certain features does not mean you need to learn/know all of them if you don’t plan on using them. At least for a non-trivial piece of software like a modern 3DCC, you’d otherwise spend a long time learning stuff when you could be creating.

There are probably things in Blender or Maya you have never touched either or can you honestly say that you are thoroughly familiar with each and every nook and cranny of either software?

My point here is that we are talking about keyframes baked onto the control rig and I have a hard time finding those in the dope sheet (even when un-hiding all the stuff in the layers that Ben hid). After all, CC4D Tools is a combination of C4D animation features, Xpresso, plus Python, not just a bunch of simple keyframes on a run-of-the-mill joint hierarchy, and I’d rather not mess around in such a complex setup by manually deleting stuff, if you don’t mind.

But in the end it’s really simple: If Ben implements a remove-animation function, great; if not, I’ll find some workaround; I can always re-import a “clean” character and re-target the body and facial motions. All it takes is a few clicks and a little while watching CC4D Tools do its thing.

There are probably things in Blender or Maya you have never touched either or can you honestly say that you are thoroughly familiar with each and every nook and cranny of either software?

Nope ,and frankly there are many aspect of Blender & Maya that I do not think I will ever bother to become proficient or even care to ( UV mapping ) :rage:

The difference here is when I ask for some feature, from a third party plugin developer to load NVIDIA Audio to face animation to my Maya advanced skeleton
and some Maya Guru says:

“Hey my dude, there is already a panel in the Maya advanced skeleton interface to load NVIDIA Audio to face animation.”

I am going to, at a minimum, go have look at what the guy suggested instead of posting an angry, defensive, filibuster on why I should not have to know all this stuff.

But in the end it’s really simple: If Ben implements a remove-animation function, great; if not, I’ll find some workaround;

Perhaps Ben will add a “remove animation” button at some point.

why is it so very upsetting for one of the other three people in this Iclone community (with some past experience in C4D) to suggest a potential native, in application work around to clear old animation data from a control rig in the interim?

Because(spoiler alert) any keyframed animation data in an industry standard 3DCC like C4D
will be stored somewhere in your current scene file.

That even includes if it is packed up in a “wrapper” like an Iclone IMotion clip ,Daz studio “aniblock” C4D,Motion clip or……>>>trigger warning!!<<<<…a Blender NLA action strip.

In the case of Iclone that packed up Imotion clip is the default format hence why we have to “sample” to the Curve editor to edit the curves.

But Oh no!!! …there I go again!!
blurting out some information about Iclone that you don’t care about. :rofl: :rofl:

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So glad to see Ben getting some well deserved recognition for his excellent work on this plugin!!

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Yes, I feel the same way. I think it’s really cool that Maxon has now taken up the issue.

My dream would be for Maxon to take over Reallusion and integrate Iclone and CC. That would make it the perfect programme and the strengths would complement each other.
Iclone and CC have a super simple animation system, but the rest is really poor for more sophisticated requirements, and C4D has an animation system that, in my opinion, could be significantly improved. On the other hand, many other aspects are great in my view.

And then they would probably finally make it possible to have a decent forum. I still have problems when I want to post a reply.

All Maxon products are annual rentware only so that would be a nonstarter for many Iclone /CC5 users.

Maxon does not need to “take over” Reallusion
Ben has proven that it was always possible to develop a better Character Auto rigging system that supports Rokkoko mocap etc along with Actorcore motions.

If Maxon were smart, they would offer Ben a Huge pile of
$$cash $$ for his toolset and make it a permanent part of the base version of C4D and maybe make a tight import/export pipeline for cascadeur and update the cineware exporter for the major game engine
UE5, Unityt & Godot.

If Maxon purchases the tools, they could eliminate the interfaces to other programmes such as Maya or Blender. That would be a real competitive advantage.

You could then run Iclone and CC as purchased versions. That wouldn’t be a problem. And C4D users would simply get it included in their package, which they would then pay for separately. Maxon is currently doing the same thing with Adobe products.

Hmmm…Not really
First here is no legal way Maxon could retroactively force the potential hundreds of thousands of users, who already have the FREE stand alone Accurig software, to delete their copies.
If they tried, many would openly share “pirated “ copies out of pure spite.

Second It gives Maxon Zero competitive advantage over us Blender users as we already have our own addons that does everything in Blender that Ben’s tools does in C4D for Body and facial animation ,at a cheaper ,cost (No $800+ /yr for C4D) with ZERO need for any Reallusion software

Lastly everything that Ben’s addon does in C4D ls already built-in to Maya’s Advanced Skeleton rigging& animation retaget system system
so a Maxon aquisition of Reallusion
would only help the existing Maxon rental customers get better Character animation tools.

No Blender or Maya user is going to jump to C4D just for this.

And I would bet that existing Iclone users will stubbornly keep their current non Maxon versions of Iclone/CC5 and use external options Like UE5 or Blender for Better renders.

It would be much better if Reallusion took over Maxon. Then they can directly integrate Zbrush features into CC and Cinema 4D and Redshift as the new modeling tools and render engine for IC.

Maxon is owned by these guys

Even if Reallusion could afford to buy C4D from them (LOL!!)
that does not mean that Reallusion would have the technical expertise to integrate any of the Maxon software tech into Iclone.

According to officially available data, Maxon made a profit of EUR 15 million in 2023. And as Autodidakt has already written, Maxon is a subsidiary of NEMETSCHEK. Compare the stock market prices of both companies – then there is no need for further discussion.

Ultimately, a collaboration between the two would bring together the best of both programmes.

@AutoDidact @Locutus It’s not unlikely that Cinema 4D will be replaced more and more by Houdini and then major customers won’t continue with their Maxon subscriptions. Then it no longer has value for Nemetschek, so it makes sense for them to sell it before it it gets too expensive for them to keep it going.

Maxon C4D has a loyal following and it is extremely easy to learn.
I was a C4D user from version 7 up to R25
The last perpetual version (which I still have installed)

Have you have tried doing anything in the free Houdini Apprentice version?
it’s like learning quantum physics just to set up a smoke simulation to export to a VDB for Blender.

It would not matter much to Iclone users if NEMETSCHEK sells C4D or not.

Iclone is largely a closed garden, purpose built software who’s only pipeline in & out is FBX or Alembic with JSON files to help with material transfer.

Sure Maxon will gladly showcase third party tools (like Ben’s) that promote their software …why not?
But they have little to gain by any direct collaboration with Reallusion as their core user base (3D motion graphic artists)for the most part don’t seem to care about Character animation for games or films.

@AutoDidact Yeah, I used Houdini Apprentice some years ago. I think it was up to version 17 or 17.5. The next version was incompatible with my old computers processor at the time, so I didn’t use newer versions.

In the early 2000s I got a home consumer version of Cinema 4D (Creative Studio 3D):


But I liked trueSpace more and ultimately got that (first the free version 1 and later version 5, 6, 7) until it was killed by Microsoft.

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After Effects comes with a free version of Cinema4D Lite, but I haven’t used it yet because I don’t really know what to do with it. Maybe I should try.

while I have a full version of C4D R25
and a really old version of , pre-subscription ,After Effects CS6

Be advised that the Cinema4D “lite” that come with After Effects has some fairly severe limitations if you plan to use it as an alternative render engine for Iclone /CC5

NO GPU support so no Advanced rendering options such as redshift
so only the uber slow ,old standard, non PBR ray tracer using your CPU

NO third party plugin support

Technically has “FBX import” but from what I have read ,in
several forums, no one seems to be able to import a simple rig from Mixamo ,so a complex character from CC4/CC5 might be doubtful.