Armor can be a ccCloth asset but it doesn’t have to be to work correctly. It isn’t hard to rig/skin it in Blender or Unreal or whatnot. Regardless, based on the wording of the EULA, it doesn’t change anything. Taking your own asset and importing it into CC doesn’t make it RL Content.
Regardless, in my case I think we’ve decided to just use Metahumans instead. While we can work around the restrictions following the actual EULA, it’s not worth the hassle. This way if we decide to change the customization options, we won’t have to debate if it’s enough to be considered a character generator. Plus, I don’t even want to think about the responses we’d get if we asked about using Mutable as part of all this to drive mesh optimization when changing outfits.
While I neve use UE/Game engines, my brain almost exploded as I started reading the thread . Common RL! Round up your restrictions. Some of them just confusing, do make sense and result in long discussions such as this one and many more in the past. You are loosing revenue as clients simply walk away to save themselves a hassle.
I’ve had some success attaching non-RL clothing and armor in Unreal Engine with proper (highly detailed) collisions defined on top of an RL base character (I was doing it for clothing simulation, not character creation, but the mechanism is the same). I decided that the scope of my current project doesn’t need it (and it’s finicky, and I have far more important finicky things to work on in the project). But I would love to know the details of what is allowed under the EULA in case future projects require more flexibility, because as I learn more and the tools become more streamlined, I expect I will have a larger scope in future projects.
Hi @bsgrooms@IrinaIV - Just to clarify what Sophus has already explained, NO Reallusion content can be used in an in-game character generator or character customisation system (including the avatar itself) without an Enterprise license.
The problem is everyone is looking for loopholes or workarounds to circumvent the EULA and avoid requiring an Enterprise license.
So to try and stop all the confusion, I’ll try and keep it as simple as possible.
No Reallusion content whatsoever can be used in an in-game character generator or character customization system, unless you have a negotiated Enterprise license. This includes the avatar right through to accessories.
So if your game must include a character generator or customizer, then all the content you use, starting with the avatar itself, must be 100% your own work or sourced from a 3rd party who permits usage in such systems. Character Creator can then be the conduit for the content, but I reiterate again, you can’t use any Reallusion content.
So, if I have complete character A and complete character B in my game, I can’t have the player choose between playing character A or character B? And I can’t attach anything to the avatar in any sort of gameplay system, like wielding a weapon the player has found, or putting on a medallion or armor? And if within the gameplay the player does something that would affect the appearance of their character or an NPC, I can’t use a different model to show this? (this is what Sophus is claiming)
The EULA doesn’t say a word about a character customization system, only a character generation system. What we’ve been asking for is a clear definition of what a character generator is. And that definition really should be in the EULA. Right now it’s like us asking what is a chair and getting back a chair is something that looks like a chair. Not helpful.
If you are a game creator or player yourself, then you will surely have encountered a character generator/creator/customizer seeing as so many games have them.
A good example of what we are talking about here can be found in the game The Sims 4. If you have ever played this game you will have encountered “Create a Sim” where you create a new Sim from scratch. This is what we are calling a character generator.
In addition to creating a new Sim, you can also take your Sim back into “Create a Sim” to customize it by changing hair, clothing, shoes etc. This is what we talk about as a character customizer.
You will also find character generators and customizers in games such as Skyrim, Cyberpunk 2077 and most other RPG and MMO games.
It really doesn’t. While I would agree with those examples being a character generator, I don’t consider just swapping outfits to be a generator and we’ve been told that’s against the rules. Keep in mind that we are strictly talking about scenarios where absolutely no RL Content is being added, removed, or modified here. At most it may be being displayed in the UI.
Keeping to the RPG theme, creating your character at the beginner of Skyrim (or coming back to the same screen during the game) would be a character generator for sure since you’re modifying the base character (RL Content). But take Witcher 3… I don’t think anything it does would be considered a character generator (maybe the hair and beard stuff at most but let’s assume those parts either aren’t being modified) but we’ve been told on here it is. It may be considered a customizer but that’s not against the EULA.
“But take Witcher 3… I don’t think anything it does would be considered a character generator (maybe the hair and beard stuff at most but let’s assume those parts either aren’t being modified) but we’ve been told on here it is. It may be considered a customizer but that’s not against the EULA.”
That’s exactly it. Sophus is telling us that this is against the EULA and we are hoping that you can clear it up for us here. That equipping differing armor during gameplay is also “customization.” Or picking different (non-modifiable) characters to play. I’m with bsgrooms that this can’t be what you mean, because this makes RL’s CC useless to more or less any game developer unless they’re a large enterprise, and RL’s iClone only a mild improvement over other animation tools. I doubt you guys are this enthused to make yourselves useless to smaller game developers (since none of this protects your software, as none of it takes the actual model creation/refinement outside of CC).
Problem is that most of what you just said is not in the EULA. If I had just read the EULA and not looked on the forums and other sites, I would have no idea that an Inventory System that happens to show the base character as a preview wasn’t allowed even if it’s all custom assets besides the base character. No one would realistically consider just swapping weapons and armor to be generating a character regardless of if the base mesh is visible or not.
To me it’s pretty clear that this is designed to prevent things like cosmetic micro-transactions but they should just say so and allow common sense changes that are part of actual gameplay.
Currently they see it as the same system, which makes sense insofar as other than changing the characters body it’s basically identical. But maybe they will change the EULA in the future to be more liberal.
I mean, we are lucky we can use the models in a game at all. If I remember it correctly 4-5 years ago this wasn’t even possible without getting a permission by Reallusion.
Actually, Pete has already defined what they consider to be a character generator and what they consider to be a character customizer. My use case doesn’t fit either honestly but it certainly isn’t making a character from scratch at the beginning of the game. it’s closer to what they call a customizer (with more limitations) and nothing in the EULA mentions a customizer one way or another. He can say it is against the rules but if it’s not in the EULA, it doesn’t matter.
The problem, for me at least, is that I purchased all this based on the wording of the EULA and the goals for my game. So now I’m left with 3 options since it’s way past the 14 day mark. 1 - I use something else for the player character and CC5 for some of the other characters. This is stupid since it requires 2 workflows. 2 - Proceed based on the wording of the EULA and fight it down the road if they try to enforce something different. Or 3 - Eat the cost and not use any of their products or content whatsoever.
I realize that I could easily just not show the character in the inventory screen and call it good but honestly the more I research this, the more annoyed I get by this blatant cash-grab.
I think a more relevant comparison would be me saying that they can’t stream the game unless they pay me a fee. I justify it by pointing out a clause that they can’t use my characters commercially without additional licensing. I’d use that to try to claim that streaming was a violation. And that would absolutely be a cash-grab and probably unenforceable. Definitely unethical.
@bsgrooms My comparison is insofar correct, as you don’t want to pay the Enterprise license such as the hypothetical players don’t want to pay for the game.
Legally game developers are absolutely allowed to prohibit streaming since it’s their IP. For example, streaming or even releasing a recorded video of an early review copy of a game before release date is absolutely a no-go and would get the uploader into very deep trouble. And after release it’s just tolerated by the game companies. They definitely could block or remove any uploads.
Same for other companies. Every sane person would never try to stream a movie while doing live commentary about it. It’s not tolerated by most movie companies.
Reallusion has the same rights, because their IP is the mesh topology, UV map layout, bones hierarchy and so on.
So they can decide what their customers can do with it.
Nice try but it’s not the same whatsoever. When someone sends out a review copy of a game, it comes with a license agreement specifically blocking posting/streaming/discussing it until the embargo date is reached. And if I specifically blocked streaming of the game in the license agreement, it would be legal for me to pursue anyone who broke that agreement. That’s not what’s happening here though.
Reallusion absolutely has rights to specify how their IP is used, never tried to claim otherwise. While I consider the character generator restriction in the context of games to be a complete cash-grab since allowing it wouldn’t impact their sales whatsoever, it’s legal for them to restrict it since it’s specified in the EULA. However, they have stated clearly in here and in other threads what is a generator and what is a customizer. And the EULA doesn’t prevent a customizer. The issue I have with it all is they aren’t following the EULA and trying to prevent uses that are by their own definition are not restricted.
I’m sure you’re thinking that I’m trying to find a loophole or whatever. I’m not, I just expect to be able to use the products I purchased under the rules of the EULA, not rules they’ve decided to add outside that agreement.
. Common RL! Round up your restrictions. Some of them just confusing, do make sense and result in long discussions such as this one and many more in the past. You are loosing revenue as clients simply walk away to save themselves a hassle.